Acne Q & A Archive: raw beef? / cured or smoked meat?

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Author	Topic: raw beef? / cured or smoked meat?
monica 09-12-2002 10:28 PM	You mentioned that RRM eats it. I assume he incorporates it just like sashimi? I know that you can't recommend that anyone eat it, but are there any nutrients in raw meat that are beneficial to women? Why does he eat it?
Wai 09-13-2002 07:00 AM	quote: I assume he incorporates it just like sashimi? Yes. It is hard to find really raw beef; that is why he mostly eats raw ox heart. He eats it at night, after having consumed juice. quote: I know that you can't recommend that anyone eat it, but are there any nutrients in raw meat that are beneficial to women? Why does he eat it? No, I cannot recommend it, because of possible parasites in raw beef. All nutrients that are contained in beef, are also present in egg yolks and fish, but yolks are more nutritional. RRM eats it because he likes the taste, as an alternation to fish. (he cares less for the yolks) NUTRIENT CONTENTS OF BEEF (Some of them, average amounts, per 100 gram, muscles only) 0.001 gram = 1 mg = 1,000 痢 water 75% protein 22% fat 1.9% minerals 1.2% sodium 66 mg potassium 355 mg magnesium 23 mg calcium 6 mg manganese 22 痢 iron 2 mg cobalt 0.3 痢 copper 88 痢 zinc 4 mg nickel 6 痢 chromium 5 痢 molybdenum 28 痢 aluminium 5 痢 phosphorus 194 mg chloride 52 mg fluoride - iodide 7 痢 boron 43 痢 selenium 5 痢 vitamin A 20 痢 vitamin E act. 480 痢 vitamin K 12.5 痢 vitamin B1 230 痢 vitamin B2 260 痢 vitamin B3 7.5 mg vitamin B5 600 痢 vitamin B6 186 痢 vitamin B8 3 痢 vitamin B9 3 痢 vitamin B12 5 痢 cystine 280 mg methionine 650 mg linolenic acid 22 mg arachidonic acid 15 mg cholesterol 58 mg glutathione 20 mg
monica 09-13-2002 08:54 AM	Why do you find it hard to find really raw beef? Isn't all of it raw at the meat counter? Or do you mean really safe raw meat? I have talked to a butcher at a specific market who says he has a very large group of customer who buy his 'free range/grass fed' ground beef and eat it raw. The majority of them are on that diet i mentioned before, from the book by Vonderplatz. Isn't that meat really raw? Or does the machine that grinds it maybe create enough heat to cook it partially?? Does 'grass fed' beef contain a higher level of omega 3 fatty acids? (of course, i was told this )
Wai 10-11-2002 05:27 AM	quote: Why do you find it hard to find really raw beef? Isn't all of it raw at the meat counter? Unfortunately, it is hardly ever really RAW. Almost all the meat gets 'prepared' before it is sold; they even claim that it is a regulation now; that the meat NEEDS to be 'treated' before it can be sold. Once you have tasted and seen really raw meat, it is easy to detect whether meat is really raw, or not. So, all you need to do, is find a butcher where you can follow the whole process, to make sure the meat is really raw. From then on, your experience can make you easily detect the difference between raw and non-raw meat. quote: Isn't that meat really raw? Probably not, but I don't know about the practises in your country... quote: Or does the machine that grinds it maybe create enough heat to cook it partially?? They buy GRINDED meat? Wow, that is not so clever, because then there are less means to determine the freshness / rawness. The grinder does not 'prepare the meat'; that is done separately. quote: Does 'grass fed' beef contain a higher level of omega 3 fatty acids? Yes, because when eating grass, they also ingest insects, worms etc., and this animal food supplies them with all the omega 3 fats. Again, i certainly not recommend eating raw beef / ox heart
monica 10-11-2002 05:53 PM	he actually takes the raw steak and grinds it fresh while i am there. Is the steak at the meat counter treated in any way?
Wai 10-12-2002 11:55 AM	Yes. The meat is irradiated or pasteurized before it is delivered to the shops. quote: From this link "After the killing process, the sides of beef are pasteurized with steam, then put in a cooler for 48 hours." ... "The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has made clear at the Home Page of "Center for Food Safety & Applied Natrition" on December 3,1997 that "FDA is amending the Food Additive Regulations" to provide for the safe use of a source of radiation to treat refrigerated or frozen uncooked meat, meat byproducts, and certain meat food products to control foodborne pathogens and extend product shelf-life. This action is in response to a petition filed by Isomedix, Inc. New regulation of 21 CFR Part 179, [Docket No. 94F-0289], "Irradiation in the Production, Processing and Handling of Food" is effective December 3, 1997, of which the full text is available at the Foodborne Illness HomePage of FDA and FDA has been asking to get the written objections and requests for a hearing by January 2, 1998. In the text of this document, the term "meat" will be used to refer collectively to meat, meat byproducts, and applicable meat food products ... The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) permits three types of ionizing radiation to be used on foods: gamma rays (from radioactive isotopes Cobalt-60 and Cesium-137), high-energy electrons, and x rays ... " Unfortunately, they lately are very consequent about this in my country also... What is troubling me, that they, instead of "irradiation, now want to start calling it "cold pasteurization", so that people 'don't get worried' (= don't know what happens to the meat) Both pasteurization and irradiation affects the raw protein, causing 'dirty' protein. Again, i certainly not recommend eating raw beef / ox heart.
Vanessa 01-29-2003 01:19 PM	Wai, You've mentionned that RRM regularly eats raw beef. What exactly are the reasons that you don't recommend it? Is it because of the hormones, antibiotics, polluants in it? Is it because it can cause acne, unlike raw fish? Is it because it's too high in protein? Is it dirty protein if it's raw? Is it becaue it's too hard to digest? Is it considered a munch-food? What harm can it do to our body? I'm asking because if eating raw beef isn't a problem for my acne or health, it would help me a lot to stay on this diet. I used to love meat and being able to have raw beef as well as raw fish would really help me regain some pleasure in eating again. Thanks
Wai 01-29-2003 01:21 PM	quote: You've mentionned that RRM regularly eats raw beef. What exactly are the reasons that you don't recommend it? He has not been able to find really raw beef in months, so he hasn't been eating that. Instead he eats raw salmon (or tuna) or raw ox heart, which can easily be found raw here. Beef is hardly ever really raw here. They always claim it is, but this is hardly ever true. The reason that I don't recommend it, is because of the risk of parasites and E-coli infection (which is dangerous). quote: Is it because it can cause acne, unlike raw fish? consuming too much protein in general (even raw) can cause acne; not in everyone, but in most acne patients. consuming too much raw fish can cause acne as well as consuming too much raw beef. consuming too much raw protein all the time, the levels of protein in the blood, lymphe and skin will be higher, and thus will be the amount of water retained. quote: Is it considered a munch-food? If the beef is REALLY raw, it is not considered a munch food. Again, i certainly not recommend eating raw beef / ox heart quote: I used to love meat and being able to have raw beef as well as raw fish would really help me regain some pleasure in eating again. I just cannot recommend it ... ... ...
john 01-29-2003 01:23 PM	What about eating meat that has been cured or smoked. I found some smoked chicken (yes, I know, prob. other bad stuff in smoked meats) that the meat man at health food store says did not reach above 145 degrees in the middle. He said its smoked for a long time and once it reaches 145 in the middle for a certain length of time then its okay for consumption. Also, what about cured meat like Bresaola. It has never been cooked, just cured in a solution. For those of us who don't have a problem with the salt does anyone have thoughts about these raw meats.
Wai 01-29-2003 01:35 PM	quote: What about eating meat that has been cured or smoked. Smoked meat very easily causes acne; it is ABSOLUTELY unsafe. Many people have tried this before... (chicken, fish, beef etc.) quote: what about cured meat like Bresaola. It has never been cooked, just cured in a solution ... For those of us who don't have a problem with the salt does anyone have thoughts about these raw meats. One problem is that what we think is raw beef, is hardly ever raw... Also, even if it is raw, you need to be personally in control of the drying process (Bresaola = Italian air-dried beef filet aged 2 months or more; there is a thread about dried meats) to be sure that no heat is applied. And then there is the issue of parasites. Yes, the salt kills these, but the skin of people with acne cannot cope with the salt... Also, an E-coli infection can be very dangerous...
john 01-29-2003 06:27 PM	>Smoked meat very easily causes acne So even meat protein thats only at 145 degrees becomes as dirty as 350 degree baked meat? Is it the heat or the smoke? Given the conceptualiztion of dirty protein it seems that protein exposed to 145 degree heat would be easier for our body to process than protein exposed to 350-400 degree heat. I'm just trying to discern if there are degrees of dirty protein in meat. >And then there is the issue of parasites. Yes, the salt kills these, but the skin of people with acne cannot cope with the salt... One problem is that what we think is raw beef, is hardly ever raw... Also, even if it is raw, you need to be personally in control of the drying process (Bresaola = Italian air-dried beef filet aged 2 months or more; there is a thread about dried meats) to be sure that no heat is applied. >And then there is the issue of parasites. It seems like beef cured by a meat professional would be at least safer than eating raw beef. >Yes, the salt kills these, but the skin of >people with acne cannot cope with the salt... But if I am someone who can handle the salt is the protein in cured meat less dirty than the protein in a fried hamburger or baked chicken.
Wai 01-30-2003 11:28 AM	quote: So even meat protein thats only at 145 degrees becomes as dirty as 350 degree baked meat? Is it the heat or the smoke? not AS dirty, but yes, 'dirty'. "cold-smoked" meat is actually 'treated with chemicals', and chemicals can also influence protein composition. You can even SEE that the protein composition is altered; you can actually SEE that smoked meat is different in color and/or texture than its completely raw counterpart. quote: I'm just trying to discern if there are degrees of dirty protein in meat. yes, the more heat involved, the more damage, the more 'dirty' the food But that is not related to the sample diet, but to the diet AFTER the sample diet (there is a special forum about this) quote: It seems like beef cured by a meat professional would be at least safer than eating raw beef. only regarding parasites, not regarding heterocyclic amines, for example... And, regarding the sample diet, cured meat is out of the question. quote: But if I am someone who can handle the salt is the protein in cured meat less dirty than the protein in a fried hamburger or baked chicken. yes, but that is a question for the "after the sample diet" forum.
john 01-30-2003 03:50 PM	>not AS dirty, but yes, 'dirty'. thats what I figure but I wanted to hear it from you. >"cold-smoked" meat is actually 'treated with >chemicals', and chemicals can also influence >protein composition. thank you, I wasn't sure if other things besides heat would change protein. >yes, but that is a question for the "after the >sample diet" forum. point taken....
Ingredients 04-03-2003 10:57 AM	After much reading, im still not clear on exactly how bad effects can be from eating raw meat.. I have tracked down some safe meat sources in my area that seem to be well trusted - I just simply don't want to die or anything.. perhaps its because I have never met anyone in real life who eats raw meat is why I am slightly scared - I am very interested in it though.. Any comments? thanks.
Wai 04-03-2003 11:10 AM	quote: Ingre wrote: im still not clear on exactly how bad effects can be from eating raw meat ... Any comments? Here are some links about E. coli and beef consumption:
vasc 06-10-2003 01:53 PM	I consulted the USDA Food Database: Beef has some sodium (i.e. salt). However egg yolks and fresh tuna have about the same amount of sodium per weight unit hence beef is not worse in this regard.
RRM 06-10-2003 01:56 PM	It is not solely about sodium, but also about 'dirty' protein, and also about food safety consumption of course. A natural low sodium content as fish and egg yolks is never a problem, but, extra salt is. Almost any food product contains added salt. RRM
engesongwok 06-10-2003 11:08 PM	Wai, Ox heart cannot contain parasites? How do you know this?
RRM 06-12-2003 03:51 AM	If a parasite enters the brain (eg. rickettsia) they cause rapid death of the host, and its meat never enters the market. But still, we do NOT recommend eating raw beef / ox heart. RRM