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| Author | Topic: Questions about diet combined with hard training. |
| Hannes 10-26-2002 10:50 PM | Hi. I found your site yesterday, when searching for information about nutritious food, and I was quickly sucked in and couldn’t leave until four hours later. Sitting with a big plate full of sour milk and a sandwich with five layers of cheese in front of me, I was really surprised when reading about how unhealthy too much protein can be and how bad dairy products are (especially cheese), and I suddenly realized that I might not be as healthy as I thought. ![[Smile]](../smile.gif) I am a 19-year-old guy from Sweden, 180 cm tall and weighing 70 kg, and I train very much right now. I am not very active during daytime, though, as I have no work and still live with my parents, but I train about two to four hours, four times a week. My training includes lots of stamina training (running, jumping and doing very intensive movements) as well as muscle training (mostly legs), so it is critical I maintain my energy level to not start loosing muscles. I am very interested in trying your diet out, and read about your boyfriend’s diet and thought something like that might work for me as well. My main priority would not be getting rid of acne (though it would be nice if it worked against that as well), but rather to live a more healthy life which I hope will have positive effects on my training and my life in general in the future. I am also aiming at gaining some weight in muscles, probably around 5 kg. Right now I don’t smoke, don’t drink coffee and at most only drink a little alcohol once every month (which I could easily stop doing). I do drink a lot of ordinary tap water, especially when training, and eat much food. The food I usually eat is bread, cheese, milk, cereals or cooked food like pasta, potatoes, meat etc. I have also been eating vegetables and salads and a couple of bananas/apples daily. What I was thinking of was to try to follow a daily diet like this to 100% for a couple of weeks, which is about the same diet you said your boyfriend used: - Four and a half litres of orange juice mixed with 100 to 150 gram sugar and 50 gram oil per every 1.5 litre juice. - Some type of nuts and raisins. I’ll try get hold of those Brazil nuts if I can. - I will probably mostly go for the five raw egg yolks, as that will be easier to prepare. - Bananas, apples, pears and as much different fruit I can get hold of. - One avocado (perhaps together with the egg yolks). Please tell me if you can find anything important missing. I also have some questions I would like to ask before I begin this diet, so I can be certain I am doing everything correctly: 1) If I follow this diet I understand that I will have to drink huge amounts of fruit juice (around 4-5 litres a day) and eat many fruits, to get the necessary energy. One thing I wonder is what type of juice is the best. I read something about not drinking pasteurized orange juice, but does this mean that you have to press the oranges yourself, or are there any non-pasteurized juices available for buying? 2) Should you drink the juice a little at a time but spread out during the day, or should you have specific “meals” when you drink larger amounts of juice at once? 3) When would the best time be to eat the egg yolks and avocado? 4) When I train I drink huge amounts of water. If I try this diet, would it be a good idea to change some of the water into the prepared orange juice, to use it as a kind of energy drink? Or should I wait until after the training to make better use of the juice, and instead stick to water during training? 5) Something else I wonder about regarding this diet: Can my stomach really handle it? Why I ask is both because I have felt that orange juice is quite strong, and because I wonder if there’s any risk my stomach might get sick or weak from the lack of fibrous food in the diet. 6) Another thing I, and especially my mom, is worried about: Do you really get all the vitamins, minerals, and all those things you need to survive, by strictly following this diet only? What I mean is that it almost sounds too easy, or rather, too good to be true. 7) What is the exact type of Brazil nuts I should buy? I saw your link to http://www.nutsonline.com/ but there were many different kinds of Brazil nuts to choose from and I’m not sure which kind you meant were the best. And are there any more common nuts that could work as a replacement if it’s impossible for me to get a hold of Brazil nuts? 8) What type of oil and sugar should you mix the orange juice with? Would it work with some kind of olive oil and just raw (unrefined) sugar? 9) How much more expensive is this kind of diet than a “regular” diet, based on your own experience? I guess the most money will be used to buy all that orange juice/oranges. 10) Should I eat any kind of vegetables/salads? I remember reading something about tomatoes and cucumber but I never quite understood if it was all right to eat. Sorry, this message got much longer than I intended to, I hope it’s alright. You don't need to answer if you don't have time. Thanks for everything so far. You have a great site with great ideas and lots of great information! - Hannes |
| Wai 10-28-2002 04:26 PM | Hi Hannes,quote:Nothing's missing, but please submit your version of the diet to the nutrient calculator, to make sure for yourself. quote:Any juice from the juice extractor, or pressed OJ. Any commercial juice that you buy is always pasteurized. quote:Drink as much as you feel like, as often as you feel like, but yes, it is best to constantly drink a little. No 'meals'. quote:at night, after your physical activity, when you have enough time to rest. quote:you better replace ALL the water by OJ (also during training; it is easily digested / absorbed)), because you will need all the energy. The OJ is predominantly water. Drinking so much OJ, you will not like to drink water, and you don't need it, and you need the energy from the OJ. quote:Even eating only one piece of whole fruit a day, you will not lack fiber. Your stomach can only handly so much juice if it is from well ripened oranges and contains sufficient oil (the oil softens it). quote:Please submit your version of my diet to the nutrient calculator, and you will see. quote:It doesn't matter, as long as they are bought IN THE SHELL quote:Cold pressed oilve oil is perfect; take one with the least dominant taste. Regular sugar is fine, just make sure not to take caramelized cane sugar. (you can smell it) quote:Yes, the oranges cost quite a lot. Yes, this diet is more expensive, but how much? I don't know because I never ate 'normally'... quote:Please do some reading in the 'fruits, juices and salads' forum. |
| Scott 10-28-2002 06:03 PM | You say no orange juice 'meals,' Wai? Oops. Is it a problem that I swallow my daily liter of orange juice in about four or five gulps? |
| Pan 10-29-2002 04:46 AM | Hello Hannes and Wai, I´m new here and I have played around with rawfood for a year. Very strict the latest 5-6 weeks. Wai, I found out about this site from your partner (Rawreformedrobotman :-) at another board, very glad I found you. It´s so funny, becasue I have slowly trasitioned to this diet "intuitevely", and it is great to see that a welleducated person like you and your partner have made about the same conclusions as me. I think I have eaten to little and I will try to raise my calories to gain more muscles, or rather the other way around, not to burn muscles due to catabolic conditions when not eating enough. Hannes, I´m also a Swede, living in Stockholm. I´m 185cm, 78 kilo, 33 years, strong with 10% bodyfat. I have struggled some with gaining muscles and will try to eat more for better succes. However I can tell you it is perfectly possible to gain on this diet as long as you eat/drink enough. I don´t know what your goals is but to me it seems like you are training a LOT. Do some reading about it and you will see that both anaerobic and aerobic workouts often can be done with bigger succes if you do not overtrain. And about orange juice, there is a fresh, non-pasteurized brand in Sweden called "Brämhults", it´s sold in plastic bottles though. The cost is about 28kr/liter. There is a yummi variant with 30% crushed strawberries in it as well. Don´t worry about the nutrients in this diet, I have solved PLENTY with diffuse health problems on it and feel better and more energetic than ever as far as I can remember. The "best" olive oil in Sweden is the "krav"- marked extra vergine olive oil from the brand "Zeta". I eat a sallad a day as well on this diet, with mostly "fruits" like avocado, cucumber, sweet-pepper, and tomato and some greens, spiced up with pumpkinseeds and olives. This diet IS costly. I pay about 3000skr/month. But you should compare this to a standard "healthy-athletic" diet with powders and pills, which usually ends up even more expensive. With Wai´s diet though, you don´t need a single pill or powder, just natural food and you will feel/be better than ever. Good luck and talk to all of you later... /Peter |
| Wai 10-29-2002 02:18 PM | quote:With "no meals" I meant to say that you should never restrict yourself to eating a fixed number of meals. Gulping down one liter of juice at once is no problem, as long as you consume energy eery time that you need it. When you gulp down the OJ, you feel like it at a moment when your blood energy level is low. When your blood energy level is not low, you will not feel like gulping down a liter of OJ. But, yes, it is better to drink and eat more often in smaller amounts than larger amounts less often. |
| Wai 10-29-2002 02:23 PM | Nice to meet you Pan quote:That is THE key factor indeed (besides working out of course). quote:are you sure it is not irradiated? How long does it last? (what does the label say?) Fresh juice cannot be maintained longer than a few days after it has been pressed. |
| Pan 10-29-2002 03:20 PM | Hi Wai! "That is THE key factor indeed (besides working out of course)." Oh.. believe me I DO work out :-) I realise though that I have not beeen eating enough, especially at daytime while working. I have been training for 15 years and still have a lot to learn... The juice I mentioned is actually fresh. It is preesed and "directly" cooled and bottled. The bottle is marked with date of "bottling" (hey, that´s a new word) and the last date that it should be consumed. It is ten days between the dates. They also have a diagram that shows the "freshness" with days/temperatures/quality curves. They say that an opened bottle always should be consumed within 2-3 days and stored coold. The diagram suggest almost no degrading at 2degrC and ten days, However at 8degrC it suggest considerable degrading after 5 days. While not up to homemade organic juice, it´s a good alternative when in emergency :-) They have several juices, most are from concectrate, but 3-4 are "raw". They have Orange, Orange with Strawberries, Carrot and Mandarine as raw juices. Irradiated I think is not allowed in Sweden but I´m not sure on that one. I HATE, genetical manipulated, non-organic, irradiated and other stuipid inventions. Why can´t they realise we need the best for a good life.... oh.. I forgott $$$$$$ :-( Nice talking to you Wai, say hi to RRM from me, me and ren have a discussion with him on the Natures first law-forum. /Peter |
| Wai 10-30-2002 01:48 PM | Wow, cool those juices... that is a lot easier indeed... I will actually ask RRM to take over most of my work here, because I will be too busy to answer questions for the next few weeks... |
| Pan 10-30-2002 02:11 PM | Hi Wai! Cool that RRM is comming over :-) Yea those juices ar ok, however it gets very much $$$ if one base much of the calories on them :-( And I think I can taste the plastic sometimes, not sure but it makes me suspicious enough not to drink them often, only as a "emergency food". Have a nice "break" from the boards and talk to you later.. /Peter |
| Wintran 04-24-2003 12:19 PM | Hi! Hannes here again Lost my old password, and the password-recovery function (by sending mail) doesn't seem to work, so I created this account instead. Thanks a lot for your answers Wei and Pan, I have finally started experimenting with this diet. I also have a work now so I can pay for everything myself. I began experimenting about a week ago, and have mainly been buying Brämhults non-pasteurized orange juice, which costs 23 kr/liter here in Göteborg, as it's very convenient. I have been adding olive oil (krav-marked Zeta extra vergine) and plain white sugar in the recommended amounts. Lately I’ve started to feel sore in my throat when drinking Brämhults, and believe that the reason might be that the oranges Brämhults use might not always be ripe enough. I have compared juice that I press myself with Brämhults and have felt that the first is much milder and not at all as bitter as the latter. Can juice from unripe oranges actually make your throat sore, or can it be something else? I have cut down some on my training, mainly because of my new work, and now only train 3 times a week. I have tried replacing water with orange juice, and it works just fine, though I still need to learn to drink more. I have some other questions regarding juice and egg yolks, but I’ll post these in their respective forums. Thanks again. - Hannes |
| jay_1 04-24-2003 03:13 PM | I read somewhere in the board that to gain muscle weight you need to increase your fat intake. So is it O.K. to balance your Carbs & Fat ratio evenly, 2 grams fat for every 2 grams sugar? Or even 3 grams fat for every 2 grams sugar. I have lost a lot of weight already because I did not follow the instructions right to begin with. I wasnt taking enough energy throught the day. I am now drinking 1.5 litres of O.J. a day. I need to gain more muscle weight(or weight in general,) but I am still a little confused on how to do it. |
| Wai 04-25-2003 08:41 AM | Hi Hannes, you could have asked me for the password! i will send it to you... quote:yes, commercial juices are generally made from cheaper oranges (less ripe), and therefore contain more acids. You can counteract this by adding more oil, which makes the acids pass by without being able to cause any 'harm' quote:as long as you keep paying attention to it, it will gradually become easier, since your body prefers it |
| Wai 04-25-2003 09:02 AM | quote:yes, as long as you have sufficient energy (glycogen and glucose) available for your muscle building exercises. If you don't, you will feel less energetic, and wount be able to make as many repetitions as you are used to. And going to the max is a condition for gaining muscles. so, consuming enough sugars is essential as well. You know how many reps max for each exercise, so, see how many reps you can do while maintaining the high-fat version of the diet. If you can do as many reps, the higher fat % is absolutely okay for you. quote:the first condition is the ingest enough energy; both sugars and fats, as often during the day as possible (lots of small meals) the second condition is: muscle-building exercises First focus on ingesting enough energy all the time... |
| Hannes 04-25-2003 11:52 AM | Thanks Wai, I didn't want to bother you at first! That's a great idea, to add more oil! I will try it today with the juice I take to my training. Should I also increase the amount of sugar if I add more oil? I am starting to realize what you mean when you say "listen to your body". Today I began feeling a bit tired and felt it difficult to focus when I had finished drinking my orange juice at work, and went without any for a couple of hours. I have started to drink more lately, though, and my body seems to get more and more used to it, as you say. My stomach has been a bit loose, but I haven’t really felt sick, except once when I think I ate too many fruits at one time, right after my training. It got better with some rest. By the way, yesterday was my first day I followed your diet to 100%, and I even managed to eat my first raw egg yolk and raw salmon! Or rather, a teaspoon of egg yolk, and not more than 50 grams salmon, but it worked great and I'm not feeling sick at all! I bought the salmon piece at one of those refrigerated counters in a supermarket near us, but it seemed very fresh, and the seller told me it should not be frozen, though I should have asked him more questions. I know of a real fish stand, however, which is also situated close to us. I plan to go there soon and ask as many questions as I can - perhaps even say that I’m thinking of eating it raw so they’ll understand my concern.Anyway, this is all really exciting, and so far I’ve had no troubles with “lusts” for cooked food or dairy products, except when I’m out of fruits and know I have eaten too little that day. Thanks again for all your help! - Hannes |
| RRM 04-27-2003 12:28 PM | Hello Hannes OJ with oil and sugar added is really essential for me to maintain my muscle weight, because if I don't, my weight goes down rapidly; ingesting enough energy really is key, and I simply cannot ingest enough energy from whole fruits. Technically, I can, of course, but when I try, i always end up ingesting too little energy, simply because food is not the only thing on my mind. quote:It is not a rule; you can safely add extra olive oil only. But if you have problems putting on weight, you need to increase your energy intake, and adding oil and sugar is the most efficient way. That way you only need to keep on taking small zips from your OJ. . THIS THREAD CONTAINS MORE THAN ONE PAGE >>> |
| Pan 05-06-2003 11:22 AM | Hannes, the quality on "brämhult" OJ varies from time to time cause of the fact that they buy the fruits from different places all over the world. Sometimes it´s really sweet and full of flavour and sometimes it´s not so good and a little more sour. The strange feeling in the throat is something I can get from olive oil sometimes, especially when eating/drinking pure oil, and "extra especially" if I go with a cheaper brand. The "extra vergine" with the "krav" marking from Zeta is the best tasting olive oil I have eaten. RRM, good to see you :-) /Peter |