Acne Q & A Archive: Fruits & Condition of our teeth

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Author	Topic: Fruits & Condition of our teeth
Jean 10-10-2002 09:46 AM	Listen, what would happen with all the fruits we are eating if we weren't brushing our teeth? We would probably loose most of them within a few years.
Wai 10-12-2002 01:13 PM	quote: Listen, what would happen with all the fruits we are eating if we weren't brushing our teeth? We would probably loose most of them within a few years. There are lots of animals that eat fruits without losing their teeth. Our ancestors that ate fruits without brushing their teeth, do you really think that the adults had no teeth?
Jean 10-12-2002 02:41 PM	... So why are we loosing our teeth?
Wai 10-13-2002 03:35 PM	You tell me. Is it because of the fruits we eat? Or does it happen as well to people who eat other foods? Does it happen to all animals that eat fruits and do not brush their teeth?
etwald 10-14-2002 04:18 AM	Hi Wai, In the ancient times, people had perfect teeth and I think we would still have perfect times if we ate Wai's diet with the original ancient fruits (lower in sugars and higher in fibers).. Even with the modern fruit I don't develop sores in my mouth and my teeth look and feel perfect. I did develop lots of sores and could often feel my teeth rot away during the day on the Standard American (Western) diet, high in refined foods.. That's the key difference: Once you don't eat any refined foods, your teeth will probably be just fine.. Could it be that refined foods form a lot more plaque on the teeth and that they also alter the acidity of the body, making it a safe-haven for many bacteria.. For example: Refined grains (bread, pasta, etc) acidifies your blood, whereas fruits alkalize your blood (and your tissues).. BTW: Pasturized milk is very, very bad for one's teeth.. As you know, dairy isn't allowed (except as munch-food butter) on Wai's diet.. Another factor might be the high ch'i contents of fruits.. Somehow ch'i has a negative effect on bacteria and viri. Wilhelm Reich used the life energy, ch'i or Orgone as he called it to treat cancer and he could see the impact it had on bacteria.. The more natural and unrefined a food, the more ch'i it has: Honey has 8 times the ch'i of refined sugar for example.. When you make bread and sugar the staple foods, you can imagine that you're getting quite a low amount of ch'i.. Wai's diet is probably multifolds richer in life energy that the Standard American Diet.. (But again: this is quite controversial, but actually proven in Universities.. Choose for yourself if you want to believe this... One nice quote from a Yogi: >"Don't accept anything as the Truth, not even this. >Stay openminded and you will experience the Truth. >--- Mahavir Yogananda" ) Greetings from The Netherlands, Ed
Jean 10-14-2002 10:26 AM	Sorry, blood PH is very stable and can't be alkalized. Otherwise, we would simply die. I believe that saliva pH can become a little higher on wai's diet... but could that be enough to prevent us from brushing our teeth?
Scott 10-17-2002 10:23 PM	Hi Wai, I love your diet, but I do have one concern regarding the effect of fruit juices on teeth. I understand that refined sugar (sucrose) is terrible for teeth, but that natural fruit sugar (fructose) is okay. I'm mainly concerned with the acidity levels of oranges and tomatos. (Especially since we're drinking liters of O.J. every day). I tried to do some research online, but there's so much awful information out there, I'm not sure what to believe. I did find one guy, however, who I would tend to trust. He actually reminds me of you. He has a very scientific mind and a scientific educational background, yet like you, he is highly critical of conventional Western science. I have pasted an excerpt from his site below. I think this is a very relevant issue for all of us. I would like to know your mind on the subject, Wai. quote: As the body purifies itself, one's instincts sharpen and I began to eat a lot of fruit as the natural fruitarian needs became more and more obvious by bodily signals and experience. Unfortunately, I was not aware at that time (and the raw fooder texts gave no warning) that modern citrus fruit was so acid that it dissolves teeth on contact. Simple experiments will prove this. Rub your teeth together and feel how smooth they are. Eat a citrus fruit or pineapple, rub again and one will feel a roughness caused by the citrus acids etching the tooth surface. Another test is to cover a seashell half way with citrus juices and leave overnight. The next day the acid etching will be quite obvious. Seashells have a chemical composition very similar to teeth. Although my general level of health, energy and consciousness increased dramatically over the next several years, several bizarre phenomena were being manifest by my teeth. The first noticeable symptom was a gradual transparency occurring on the cutting edge of the incisors. Eventually, this transparent zone became about 1 mm wide and the cutting edge of the incisors began to chip away; then more transparency, more chipping. I have since learned that such loss of white opacity is due to demineralization, the loss of calcium as it is dissolved by the fruit acids (citrus, tomato, and pineapple are very acidic as is other fruit that is over or under ripe). Excerpted from: The Tooth Trip
Scott 10-17-2002 11:38 PM	I would quickly like to clarify the context of the above excerpt: the author is not saying that citrus fruits alone were the cause of massive damage to his teeth. The article is actually about how amalgam (mercury fillings) contribute to tooth decay. Unfortunately, the article is rather unclear as to precisely how much of his problem he attributed to citrus juice. It's something for us to explore further, I think.
Wai 10-18-2002 07:24 AM	Scott, quote: I understand that refined sugar (sucrose) is terrible for teeth, but that natural fruit sugar (fructose) is okay. Both fructose and sucrose are sugars naturally present in fruits... The amounts of fructose and sucrose in some fruits: apricot........ 0.9% fructose... 5.1% sucrose peach......... 1.2% fructose... 5.7% sucrose pear........... 6.7% fructose... 1.8% sucrose apple.......... 5.7% fructose... 2.6% sucrose strawberry... 2.3% fructose... 1.0% sucrose pineapple..... 2.4% fructose... 7.8% sucrose orange........ 2.6% fructose... 3.4% sucrose banana........ 3.4% fructose.. 10.3% sucrose dried dates. 24.9% fructose.. 13.8% sucrose dried figs.... 25.7% fructose.. 23.5% sucrose quote: I do have one concern regarding the effect of fruit juices on teeth... I'm mainly concerned with the acidity levels of oranges... Since consuming so much OJ (about 4.5 liters a day), for 7.5 years, my boyfriend has not had a single cavity. I understand that this is no proof, of course. To prevent tooth decay by acids, you need to consume very ripe fruits only; the riper, the more acids are converted into sugars.
Scott 10-18-2002 08:47 AM	Okay. I did't know what I was talking about regarding the sucrose/fructose thing. What else is new, right? I guess I'm just paranoid about my teeth rotting out of my face. The problem is, there are so many variables. We don't know what kind of orange juice was consumed by the author above (was it fresh?) We also don't know if it was the orange juice alone or within the context of the rest of his diet. Or maybe it wasn't the O.J. at all. Who knows. Your boyfriend drinks 4.5 liters a day? He doesn't make his own juice, does he? It takes me 8 or 9 oranges (avg. size - 2.84 inches diameter) to make one liter. To make 4.5 liters a day would require me to juice 36 oranges. They come in cases of 88, so that would be about a case every 2.5 days. Does he have some sort of industrial juice extractor, Wai? Juicing 36 oranges daily would be a time consuming process.
Jean 10-18-2002 08:48 AM	Sucrose, glucose, fructose and many other glucids can be converted into acids in the mouth. Only artificial glucids like poly-aclcool can't be converted into acids. That's why they are present in chewing gums. They have drawbacks I won't discuss here. Now about Wai's diet on teeth, the question is complex. In the one hand, we ingest a lot of glucids that have a tendency to become acids due to bacteria in the mouth. On the other hand, such a diet has been proven to increase body pH and in particular of the saliva. Rinse yuor mouth with baking soda if you're really afraid of acidic attack on your teeth.
Scott 10-18-2002 09:23 AM	That's a good idea, Jean. Thanks.
Wai 10-19-2002 02:59 PM	quote: Scott wrote: To make 4.5 liters a day would require me to juice 36 oranges. They come in cases of 88, so that would be about a case every 2.5 days. Does he have some sort of industrial juice extractor, Wai? Juicing 36 oranges daily would be a time consuming process. he, he yes, we SHOULD buy an industrial juice extractor (we will)... my boyfriend presses the oranges BY HAND (you know, the little plastic presses) every day after work, to be able to take the bottles filled with juice with him to work the next morning... He buys about 4 boxes of oranges a week for the both of us... ... he just said to me "that it might be a good idea to buy an eletric juicer"!
Scott 10-20-2002 10:42 AM	Wow, that's a lot of O.J.!! I don't know how your boyfriend finds time to work. ........... Now, at the risk of annoying you, Wai, I want to talk more about teeth. It seems like oral health is not one of your favorite topics. You are conspicuously quiet on the subject... and I don't see much, if any, consideration for it in your book. I'm concerned only because I've read numerous testimonies of raw-fooders who tend to say that dental considerations are the only serious drawback to a raw food diet. And then I find studies like this one: Ganss C., Schlechtriemen M., Klimek J. Dental Erosions in Subjects Living on a Raw Food Diet. 'Caries Research' 1999; 33: 74:80. [ Abstract ] Granted, it's difficult to evaluate a study like this, because so little credible research has been done. (Both on raw food diets and on dental erosion.) But the study does seem to support a good deal of anecdotal evidence (like the excerpt in one of my previous posts above.) It's a strange anomaly that I don't understand: Raw food diets seem like a health panacea... except when it comes to oral health! There must be an explanation. One thing I've noticed, Wai, is that fruitarians and vegans seem particularly susceptible to dental problems. Your diet appears very unique among these types of diets because it includes lots of fruit AND regular consumption of raw animal food like egg yolk and sashimi. I don't know of too many other strict raw food diets that take this approach. Do you think, perhaps, that fruitarians and vegans suffer from tooth problems because they are malnourished, lacking the nutrients that can only be found in raw animal foods? Perhaps this is why your boyfriend can drink enormous amounts of orange juice without a cavity, while a fruitarian's consumption of the same quantities will lead to dental erosion??
Wai 10-20-2002 01:37 PM	quote: Now, at the risk of annoying you, Wai, I want to talk more about teeth. he, he, how would that annoy me? ... it's the subject of this thread! quote: It seems like oral health is not one of your favorite topics. You are conspicuously quiet on the subject... that is because I know very little about it! quote: Do you think, perhaps, that fruitarians and vegans suffer from tooth problems because they are malnourished, lacking the nutrients that can only be found in raw animal foods? That might very well be the case indeed... (nutrients, such as vit. D (only present in animal food) and fluoride are also involved in our bone health) ... or because they eat raw unnatural foods that may contain substances that affect the teeth? ... just speculating here... . THIS THREAD CONTAINS A SECOND PAGE >>>
mengyao 01-10-2003 07:43 PM	quote: or because they eat raw unnatural foods that may contain substances that affect the teeth? ... just speculating here... the only unnatural foods a vegan would eat may be beans or grains. but there wouldnt be a way that they could eat those raw. after all, if its unnatural, then you cant consume it raw. as for vitamin D, they can get plenty if they hang in the sun for 20 minutes a few times a week. as for flouride, ive heard dangers about it, and the dangers of flouride in toothpaste. but flouride can easily be found in seaweed and avocados.
RRM 01-12-2003 02:07 PM	quote: the only unnatural foods a vegan would eat may be beans or grains. but there wouldnt be a way that they could eat those raw. Uh, many raw foodists eat raw rolled oats. But you are right, you cannot properly digest raw grains (let alone beans!), and maybe enzyminihibitors may somehow affect the balance of saliva-enzymes? ... just speculating here quote: as for vitamin D, they can get plenty if they hang in the sun for 20 minutes a few times a week. Yes, but many vegans live in countries where there is little sunlight (Scandinavia, UK etc.) quote: as for flouride, ive heard dangers about it Too much fluoride is dangerous indeed; http://www.3.waisays.com http://www.4.waisays.com/fluoride.htm quote: flouride can easily be found in seaweed and avocados and especially in raisins and dried apricots. BTW: Wai did not mean to suggest that vegans lack fluoride, but that multiple nutrients are involved in tooth health, and that we may need to look into nutrients about which we don't even know yet whether they are involved in bone health. (cholesterol, as a precursor of vitamin D?) (BTW2: Dried seaweed contains harmful analogues of vitamin B12 due to the drying process.)
creamy_avocado 01-24-2003 05:41 AM	I also know that TEETH are a major issue for fruitarians.. even to the point of losing all of them!
rawbebe 01-24-2003 05:43 AM	Fruitarians can loose all their teeth??? That is absolutely horrifying! Does anyone have a satisfactory explaination as to why this can be? I have heard that frutarians supposedly reply heavily on nuts in their diet for protein, and raw nuts can be very hard on the teeth, but I just can't imagine anyone tolerating losing all their teeth! Do you think nuts are the only reason? This seems like a simplistic explanation.
Wai 01-24-2003 05:43 AM	quote: Fruitarians can loose all their teeth??? For centuries people have been losing all their teet, ESPECIALLY in the Northern European countries where no fruits were consumed... Is there any scientific study that actually shows that fruitarians lose more teeth than non-fruitarians?
kikiecheekee 01-26-2003 09:10 AM	Hmmmmm....so here is my two cents.....Although I've had my share of "bad" foods, I've always eaten alot of apples, lemons, tomatoes and until recently, apple cider viniger and I've never had a cavity. Also my teeth look fine; no "transperancies" or chips or other symptoms of decay. Even though "genetic is a lie", maybe bad teeth are inherited.
Wai 01-27-2003 01:06 PM	Kikkie, "genetic is a lie" refers to the idea that major diseases have genetic CAUSES; they don't. what is genetically determined however, is how susceptible you are to those substances that really cause those diseases; its not your genes, but those bad substances, and how susceptible you are to them quote: I've always eaten alot of apples, lemons, tomatoes and until recently, apple cider viniger and I've never had a cavity but what makes you think these foods cause cavities?
kikiecheekee 02-06-2003 07:36 PM	Oooops.... I worded that comment wrong but thanxs for the reply.
jay 02-09-2003 11:35 AM	I have seen no scientific studies of fruitarians teeth but reading articles on the net and in magazines by ex-fruitarians who had good teeth for many years but experienced serious trouble after becoming fruitarian make me think this is a cause for concern. The main danger these ex-fruitarians report is eating citrus fruit which of course as good fruitarians they chewed thoroughly. I believe there is a big difference between eating citrus fruit (especially lemons which some fruitarians go in for for the low sugar content) and drinking the juice. Sipping it through a straw should help too. When I started on raw foods 5 years ago I lost a filling for the first time in my life however it was 35 years old so I wont blame the fruit!
engesongwok 02-11-2003 01:38 PM	Hello, I lost a filling a few years ago, and I was eating a 'SAD' diet.(although perhaps a more healthy version of the SAD diet). So, loosing a filling may have nothing to do with eating raw foods. On thing I have noticed myself after starting the "wai says" diet, is that my teeth are whiter. I am not sure if its possible, but it seems like the enamel has remineralized where my filing was lost. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned blood PH, and that it doesn't vary. If this is true, what does you body have to do to keep it that way? I seems to me that the body would have extra work to do in maintaining proper PH of blood and saliva, depending upon dietary factors. Cooked food, and excess protein and vitamins could possibly burden the body and make this difficult.
Wai 02-11-2003 01:38 PM	Jay, yep, lemons are very acid, and i think this acidity will affect your teeth. but who eats a lemon for pleasure? Good tasting (well ripened) fruits form no threat in my opinion
engesongwok 02-12-2003 05:13 PM	Jean- You stated the following in an earlier post. "Sorry, blood PH is very stable and can't be alkalized. Otherwise, we would simply die." Blood PH DOES vary, especially in very unhealthy conditions. I found an article on DKA (Diabetic ketoacidosis) in "Family Care Health monitor" vol.7, No.2, March/April 2002, p. 6. It states the following, "The symptoms of DKA include...rapid breathing (the body's attempt to rid the blood of acid)". So, right here it states that the blood can become acid, so correcting this condition could be called "alkalizing". The article goes on to state that "Common causes of diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) are (1) infections, such as pneumonia or urinary tract infections, and (2)interruption of insulin treatment. Another article in the magazine address the role of diet in the management of Diabetes. The article encourages people to continue to watch what they eat, watch their weight and excercise. It states, "If you stop watching what you eat once you start taking pills or insulin, your blood glucose levels will just be that much harder to control." Diabetes, P. 14. So diet is important for general health. This doesn't directly address the original topic of the post, but I wanted to demonstrate that blood PH can change and what the body tries to do to correct dangerous conditions of the blood.
Wai 02-13-2003 12:46 PM	Thank you for your latest post, engesongwok, I totally oversaw your previous post because we posted at exactly the same moment; 01.38 PM that is why i hadn't answered your question... quote: Engesongwok wrote: I seems to me that the body would have extra work to do in maintaining proper PH of blood and saliva, depending upon dietary factors. exactly. ALL levels of whatever substance in our body is subject to changes. NO LEVEL remains 100% steady. Depending on what we consider little or great variation, we regard this level "steady", or "subject to fluctuations", while, in fact, ALL levels fluctuate to some degree. All levels are subject to some sort of negative feedback system, maintaining a certain level within 'acceptable' variations, and which such fluctuations are greater, we are regarded as sick / ill / having a disease or malfunction.
jay 02-20-2003 08:49 AM	I agree that eating lemons is crazy and the guy who tried this believed that 'calories don't matter', I wonder if he is still alive! My mother bought a lemon tree for her conservatory and when it fruited she couldn't bring herself to pick them as they looked so nice. They stayed on the tree for many months but when they fell off they were as sweet and delicious as a really good orange! Some fruits contain protein digesting enzymes: Papaya (papain) Pineapple (bromelain) Figs (ficin) It is particularly important that these fruits are fully ripe as the enzymes in the unripe fruit digest the gums and loosen the teeth. During WWII some Japanese soldiers in the jungle found a pineapple plantation and lived on the unripe fruit for about 2 weeks before all of their teeth fell out. One of the characters in the true story 'The Galapagos Affair' tried to live almost exclusively on figs and lost all of his teeth in about a year (he probably ate them very unripe and not pleasant to eat).
engesongwok 02-25-2003 06:48 PM	Hello Everyone! I have something positive to share about fruit and our teeth! My teeth seem to be remineralizing since I have started a diet which centers around fruit. A few years ago I aquired a deep chip in the lower part of a tooth. It was so deep that I actually could see some of the interior parts of the tooth. It didn't hurt for some reason. Now its filled in somewhat so that that I can no longer see the inside, and its just a shallow and smooth depression. I also lost a filling, and the surface has completely remineralized, including the sharp crests of the molar. A friend thinks is due to me trying a different toothpaste. I think that helped, but something inside tells me that the toothpaste couldn't have done it by itself!
Jean 02-26-2003 07:34 AM	In a person with no health condition resulting in acidosis or alkalosis, the blood pH remains stable at 7.4. Urinary PH and saliva pH which can indeed vary greatly reflect metabolic imbalances not affecting blood pH. The main buffering agent is calcium. The body will get calcium from food or from the bones to increase the blood pH if necessary. It seems that rich fruit, rich vegetables, high calcium magnesium potassium diets prevent us from getting the calcium from the bones to keep the pH stable.
Wai 02-27-2003 12:08 PM	quote: Engesongwok wrote: the surface has completely remineralized, including the sharp crests of the molar. A friend thinks is due to me trying a different toothpaste. I think that helped, but something inside tells me that the toothpaste couldn't have done it by itself! no, it's not because of your toothpaste and it does show that this diet does not de-mineralize your teeth... quote: Jean wrote: the blood pH remains stable at 7.4 relatively stable would be a better description, or are you actually saying that the pH level does not even fluctuate beyond 7.399 and 7.401? No level is absolutely stable inside our body... quote: Jean wrote: The body will get calcium from food or from the bones to increase the blood pH if necessary and, as you might know, the blood calcium level is not stable at all, and not just to adjust the blood pH level, and thus, here we have a somewhat de-stabilizing factor, making it impossible to keep the blood pH level absolutely stable...
Jean 02-27-2003 03:23 PM	Blood PH ranges from 7.35 to 7.45. As you can see, it's a very narrow range. Under 7 or over 7.8, you're at great risk of death. As I said, blood pH remains very stable thnaks to many buffers present in the body. If there's an imbalance, the body will need to take the mineral at any cost exposing itself to depletion.
RRM 02-28-2003 07:38 AM	Wai said: quote: "ALL levels of whatever substance in our body is subject to changes. NO LEVEL remains 100% steady. Depending on what we consider little or great variation, we regard this level "steady", or "subject to fluctuations", while, in fact, ALL levels fluctuate to some degree". You responded by stating that "the blood pH remains stable at 7.4". Your last statement that "Blood PH ranges from 7.35 to 7.45", confirms Wai's original statement.
Jean 02-28-2003 04:09 PM	Listen Robotsomething, a biological indicator than remain in a 7.35 7.45 range is considered extremely stable! Have you ever heard of relative differences? Blood pH can only vary by 1.35% (simple calculus) I am wondering if Wai Genriiu shouldn't be spelled Wai GURU. I'm leaving this stubborn Sect for ever.
RRM 03-01-2003 12:33 AM	quote: Have you ever heard of relative differences? Uh, that was what she said exactly: "relatively stable would be a better description". Who started to nitwit about this aspect in the first place? (I'm just picking up the glove where Wai left it ) "stubborn"? are/were you here to convince us then?
engesongwok 04-09-2003 11:33 PM	Now my teeth are starting to hurt, and my gums are puffy. Even though I brush regularly and I started to floss. I hope that the rumors about tooth problems with fruit centered diets are false. I find that nothing tastes good, except for nuts, fruit, egg yolks and raw fish. i have totally adapted to the diet.
risrosen 04-10-2003 12:59 PM	Just got back from the dentist where I had the last of several fillings done. The dentist found four more cavities which developed just since my last exam 3 months ago, so I'd bet they came about as a result of all the orange juice I've been drinking, perhaps even the other juices. (I've been on the diet for about 6 weeks.) Granted I've been having problems with my teeth because of my eating disorder, so there might have been some small amount of decay in those teeth already, but even at my worst when I was eating cereal and tons of sugar I never had cavities develop this fast.
risrosen 04-11-2003 09:14 PM	Oh yeah, three of the four new cavities are in the upper front, which I think is exactly where one would expect the damage to be done if it was caused by something one was drinking.
Wai 04-18-2003 05:07 PM	Rickrack, any dentist can tell you that they recognise people with an eating disorder (bulemia) by the bad condition of their teeth, especially your front teeth just ask your dentist...
risrosen 04-20-2003 02:24 AM	Wai, I do NOT have bulemia! (I don't have anorexia either...I have a very strange thing going on with me.) So my teeth problem is not from vomiting food. Like I said, I never before had decay this fast, until I began this diet. What else could it be but the juice? I would like to think it is not the juice, because without the juice I cannot maintain this diet; I just can't get enough calories. Can you think of any other explanations?
Wai 04-25-2003 10:00 AM	i'm sorry for misinterpreting your writings, rickrack... I think it is a coincidence since we have gone on the diet (many years ago now), RRM and me haven't got a single new cavity! (and RRM drinks 4.5 liters OJ a day, with lots of sugar added!)
sunrayblind 05-07-2003 06:33 PM	at first I ate lemons because they were free and available, juicy, and they seemed to curb my appetite for more sugary foods. I found after a while, while otherwise being all raw, they started tasting sweeter (same batch, same tree). Interesting.
Wai 05-09-2003 12:20 PM	the acids in lemons / limes arent really good for your teeth...
engesongwok 05-11-2003 04:58 PM	What about lemons which ripen on the tree and fall by themselves? I have heard that tree ripened fruit of all types are sweeter, and are actually chemically different from fruit which is picked from the tree. Would be interesting to know if the PH differs from orchard ripened fruit, and fruit which is picked green. Personally, I don't have access to tree ripened fruit, as most people do not. There are people attempting to bring this to the consumer. "Tree ripened fruit captures the imagination of the consumer, suggesting a closer link between the grower and a satisfied customer... While higher Brix (sugar) levels, as measured by a simple refractometer, mean a deeper gold, more flavorful, more aromatic, sweeter, juicier peach with better keeping qualities, it also is an indicator of general farming practices, soil fertility, and ripening potential." http://www.kivaorchard.com/ another grower http://www.concentric.net/~runge/paulplum/main.html . THIS THREAD CONTAINS MORE THAN ONE PAGE >>>
RRM 05-15-2003 03:04 PM	quote: What about lemons which ripen on the tree and fall by themselves? Are they really sweet? As sweet as sweet oranges?
anna 06-07-2003 04:25 PM	According to Tom Billings "consumption of excessive amounts of acidic fruit like citrus, pineapples, kiwi" can cause dental problems such as "severe erosion of tooth enamel (enamel hypoplasia)" So why not drink something like cranberry juice?
RRM 06-10-2003 03:27 PM	Yes, the acids are the worst, and indeed, the sweeter, the better. The better ripened, the less acids, the sweeter. Regarding the strict acne sample diet, the cranberry juice is hardly an option, since the juice needs to be totally raw. RRM