Acne Q & A Archive: Ethanol/methanol in juice.. / bottles for juice

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Author	Topic: Ethanol/methanol in juice.. / bottles for juice
ninesky 05-12-2003 06:58 PM	The last two bottles of orange juice/olive oil/sugar have both gotten me drunk and I used different oranges for each. I thought at first that the first batch of oranges had fermented, so I tossed them and tried some fresher ones from a different source.. and the same again with those. Both times after about 15 minutes after making the juice, bubbles formed in the bottles and both smelled of ethanol.. and eventually got me drunk. What could be the cause of this?
ninesky 05-12-2003 07:14 PM	I guess the second batch was over ripe as well.. that's probably the answer to my question.
mliq 05-13-2003 03:06 PM	Wow that is very strange. Where are you at that you get these fermented oranges? I would think it would take a while for oranges to ferment in their skins.
ninesky 05-13-2003 04:02 PM	I'm in Los Angeles. I think the first batch was about 2 weeks old and had no vegetable wax so most of them grew mold.. and I thought it'd be ok to use just half of some of the oranges that only had mold on one side.. so those all definately started fermenting and when mixed with sugar, that sped up the process I think. The second batch was 1 week old with no mold and vegetable wax and I guess they must've started to ferment at least a little.. and the sugar sped up the process. Or maybe I need to wash the bottles I use with something stronger than dish cleaner.. maybe bleach to kill off the bacteria(..yeast?) that may have grown over night on the residue of the previous day's orange juice. These are just theories.. so I'd be very happy to hear a good explanation from someone who has had experience.
mliq 05-14-2003 11:50 AM	It is spring and you are in california, you should really be able to buy fresh oranges without trouble.
ninesky 05-22-2003 04:37 PM	What kind of bottles does everyone use and how do you wash them? Turns out the second batch of oranges was fine since everyone's still eating them.. but I've been too paranoid to make more juice after that.. since that time I had it before class and was too drunk to get off the bus and go to school. I'd really love some more expansion on this.. other peoples' experiences if there are any and possible explanations. Thanks
ninesky 05-24-2003 04:27 PM	PLEASE, if anyone has any experience with this, please post. Thank you.
ninesky 05-25-2003 11:19 AM	Wai, I'm sorry if I'm not allowed to have multiple threads, but this is REALLY important. Here's as much information I can have on this. One liter glass bottle washed with dish washing liquid and boiled in water for 10 minutes to kill anything that could possible be in it. Plastic juicer washed and placed in boiling water for 30 seconds. Both rinsed in cold water after cooling a bit. 40lb box of oranges bought the day before from a farmer in the citrus capital of California. 1/4 cup of olive oil plus a little extra and 1/2 cup of sugar added to the bottle. Oranges juiced and filled the rest of the bottle. I kept this with me and shook it before drinking.. never refridgerating After 20 minutes it began to form bubbles(is this normal? it sounds like carbon gases forming from fermentation) After consuming the bottle my eyes were commented to be a bit red.. as if I've been drinking.. and I felt intoxicated.. and I ate my words a bit. I guess this could be placebo or more likely.. psychosomatic. Is there anything I could be doing wrong here? I guess if I was told that everything is alright I would cease having the placebo/psychosomatic effects. I don't think I'll be able to stay on the diet if I can't consume the orange juice drink.. and I have stopped for the most part since it started happening. I've experimented a few times with the same results. Now I consume fresh fruits and egg yolks along with white rice and no salt.. no dairy, soy, or wheat so I won't fall into opiate addiction again. Please any information at all on this would be VERY helpful. Thank you.
PhiVan 05-25-2003 11:20 AM	you've consumed the whole bottle in one sitting??? when i go really long without eating and i eat a lot in one sitting, i seem to get the washed-out feeling.
ninesky 05-25-2003 11:21 AM	One sitting? I consumed it over a few hours' period.. taking a small sip every now and then.
PhiVan 05-25-2003 11:22 AM	do you eat anything else in between? like dried fruits or salad? i only sip juice between my other frequent solid foods meals, not just juice alone for hours. if i do that, my body thinks it's fasting, and it will start preparing for a famine phase....but that's just me. that's all i know, beyond that i have to bow out....good luck
Wai 05-25-2003 11:34 AM	quote: Dalai Gamma wrote: Wai, I'm sorry if I'm not allowed to have multiple threads, but this is REALLY important. it takes time to edit your other thread into this one, so please dont do that again! important? so what? everybody is equally important here, and i dont need people trying to get attention your questions will be answered anyway opening an extra thread does not give me extra time to spend here, and also does not make me answer your questions sooner actually, you are making it harder for me to answer all questions, because now im spending time to edit your posts and also to explain this all to you also, you are making the entire forum less surveyable; making it harder to distract information from, for a newcomer quote: I kept this with me and shook it before drinking.. never refridgerating ... After 20 minutes it began to form bubbles 20 minutes after having made it??? if so, i never heard of that, and this has never ahhpened to somebody i know 20 minutes after having shaken it??? if you kept it out of the fridge all day, and exposed it to high temperatures, then it may go bad way to soon yes you should keep your juice refridgerated quote: with white rice and no salt.. no dairy, soy, or wheat so I won't fall into opiate addiction again. all cooked foods, incl white rice contain beta-carbolines, with similar addictive properties as opioid peptides (though wheat and dairy are worse)
Wai 05-25-2003 11:36 AM	quote: PhiVan wrote i only sip juice between my other frequent solid foods meals, not just juice alone for hours. if i do that, my body thinks it's fasting, and it will start preparing for a famine phase your body will only think its fasting when you dont ingest enough energy from the juice RRM only zips from his juices all day, but ingesting enough energy, which is perfect, but requires adding olive oil and sugar to the juice
ninesky 05-26-2003 01:43 PM	I'm sorry, I see how that was selfish.. I was only worried that you figured this thread was resolved. I'll keep experimenting to see what works. Since you said that you've never even heard of it happening, maybe it'll put an ease to me and the placebo/psychosomatic effects could be resolved. Thanks.
ninesky 05-26-2003 09:50 PM	Oh I guess I didn't notice that you asked a question too. Yes, 20 minutes after I made the juice small bubbles start to rise.. and after that more and more. After about about two hours I had the taste of alcohol(like orange juice and vodka) in my mouth when I held it there. I tried again today keeping it refrigerated the whole time and and again bubbles keep forming and it seems like it's going bad and fermenting and I feel foggy in my mind and tired a few minutes after drinking it. RRM, could you please outline your process for preparing the orange juice drink and how you kept it until drinking it and during drinking? It'd be perfect if you could recall how you did it the previous day. Thank you in advance! .
Wai 05-29-2003 11:44 AM	what he does, is simple: 1. he makes 3 bottles every night, around 8PM, with the sugar and oil added, and puts them in the fridge immediately after pressing 2. he drinks them the next day; the juices remain in the fridge all the time, except when he goes walking with the dog or something like that
ninesky 05-29-2003 11:19 PM	Ok thank you! I've been experimenting with keeping pure orange juice in the fridge and then adding the sugar and oil seperately and that worked fine. What RRM does seems like it'd work fine. I guess since it warmed up here, keeping it out all the time caused fermentation. Thanks, now I can be back on track 100%! Oh and as a side note.. since you recommended the drink for hiking, how might I keep it cool during a 10+ hour hike? Do you think a cooler backpack would be sufficient?
RRM 05-30-2003 05:40 AM	As far as I know, there are handy cooling devices for trackers on the market (I've seen a backpacker using it) You may search the internet. RRM
Isis 05-30-2003 05:47 PM	Good to see you are slowly getting there. I just wondered...could the culture of alcohol-producing micro organisms be coming from your mouth/skin upon taking the first sip? I mean, if you have cleaned things out that much, there must still be something getting in contact that re-introduces the culture, and I'm thinking maybe your saliva, fingernails, hair etc? (Don't ask me how they come in contact with the juice! ) I only mention this if it is true that the juice starts bubbling after a very short period like 20 minutes. If it happens again, you can go to a local college and ask to speak to the Biochemistry Lecturer there saying you have something really exciting to investigate, that could make him world-famous (well, alcoholics will be lining up to learn your skill ) and I am sure he would jump at the offer to investigate the whole thing for free. Good luck! And please keep us posted.